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Thread: DIY Alky/Methanol injection

  1. #1
    Grim Reaper Nate Crisman's Avatar
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    Default DIY Alky/Methanol injection

    Well, today I finally got around to actually installing a DIY meth/alky kit in my evo8. Here is what I did:

    Stock IC sprayer tank with brass 1/2" NPT to 3/8 barb fitting in stock pump hole.
    3/8 fuel line to pump (pump has plastic 3/8 barb fitting that came with pump)
    Shurflow 8000 pump with switch bypassed. Mounted under airbox.
    -4 stainless line up to solonoid positioned in front of the fuse box
    solonoid has 3/8 to 1/8 pipe thread bushings and 1/8pipe to -4 90* fittings all brass
    1/8" NPT T for pressure gauge
    -4 stainless line up to stock IC pipe
    -4 to pipe thread fitting (anodized aluminum..need to get brass one)
    brass F-F 1/8 pipe thread 90* elbow
    M5 nossle threaded into ic pipe with oring.

    I ran the two wires for the stock ic sprayer to activte the relay to test it out.

    Tommorrow I plan on wiring up the hobbs switch I picked up today and set to 15psi.

    On my innitial test in the shop, the stupid plastic Mcmaster Carr solenoid was split and sprayed alky all over. Great . I had a NOS brand fuel solonoid with 1/8 pipe in/outlets sitting around. So I put that in and retested...no leaks. Not sure how long that solonoid will last with 100% denatured alky. I don't want to even think about another plastic noid though. maybe only use a metal check valve?

    Second test I notice the 100psi fuel pressure gauge I was using is messed up. needle is bent and it's stuck at bout 30psi. I put a 160psi air pressure gauge from the compressor in it's place. Test the system again and this one is stuck at 20psi with a bent needle too! Only the air pressure gauge's needle is bent tward 0. weird. Id like to find out what gauge the kits come with.

    Driving down the street at 3000rpm I see 14.7AF steady...pushing the button AF goes down in to the mid 12's. If I hold it long enough, the engine will missfire.
    Good, atleast it works.

    Then I find out I have an issue with my AFC...I brain farted and wired the airflow signal wire incorrectly. With no airflow signal adjustment, I can't tune the meth kit at all.

    Will update tommorrow after fixing the issues and installing the hobbs switch to activate it.

    The evo is not screaming anymore:
    GT35R replaced with stock 03 turbo
    BR race fmic/icpipes/til bov replaced with stock fmic,pipes/bov
    AEM EMS replced with stock ecu/AFC2
    850's replaced with stock 560's
    Stock maf, airbox,filter, and intake pipe
    boost down to 19psi (fuel cut limited)

    with the addition of the alky kit, I should be able to get around the fuel cut and raise the boost alot more into the high 20's. I put the AFC and alky kit on over the last 2 days. have not tuned it yet.

    My mod list is pretty simple now:
    272's w/ gears -4,-1
    3" TBE
    MBC
    AFC2
    Walbro pump
    act clutch
    ARP headstuds.

    All bout the budget again. The whole alky/meth kit cost under $175 to build.

    BTW, GTLuke is a gay
    Vicarous DSM: GVR4 431: 9.3@150+ (we gotta get that thing right this year!)

    07 Dodge Magnum SRT8: 6.1L RWD w/ 2.3L roots blower, longtubes, crazy custom driveline, no traction, and no tuning. Again...(gotta get that thing setup right this year!)

  2. #2
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    It would be good to document mounting locations for dsm's as well. We will be putting meth on jerry's car for the street and I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up in mine as well.

    Most of the FAQ's I've read use an expansion tank when mounting the pump in the rear to keep the line pressurized when the pump is off and prevent any delievery delays. I could see this not being necessary with the pump mounted up front, but do you think a 15psi hobbs switch is soon enough to make up for the electrical delays getting things running?

  3. #3
    Grim Reaper Nate Crisman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeL
    It would be good to document mounting locations for dsm's as well. We will be putting meth on jerry's car for the street and I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up in mine as well.

    Most of the FAQ's I've read use an expansion tank when mounting the pump in the rear to keep the line pressurized when the pump is off and prevent any delievery delays. I could see this not being necessary with the pump mounted up front, but do you think a 15psi hobbs switch is soon enough to make up for the electrical delays getting things running?
    I used the stock 1.5 gallon resevoir on the evo that is in the front fender area. on a DSM that has a FMIC with short route pipes, you could put the resevoir in the pass side fender area where the sidemount used to be.

    The hobbs switch should work ok..there is seriously very little delay in switch going on to when it starts spraying. Im going to use an AFC w/ map sensor to tune it out. you could account for the delay by simply setting the hi throttle % a bit higher than the activation point set in the hobbs switch.. ie...hobbs switch turns on meth at 15psi, and AFC doesn't get into the "tuned for meth" high throttle till 18psi.

    The hobbs switch is adjustable with an allen key also. mine was preset at about 4psi, and I can adjust it up to about 20 before the screw bottoms out. I belive hobbs makes one that is adjustable from ~10psi to 35psi.

    Im planning to test this out on my evo and do the same thing for the talon. Spraying the meth on racegas doesn't really have any octane benifit, but the cooling should help make up for having a shitty intercooler.

    Will go out and do some testing/tuning tonight once I fix my stupid AFC mistake. I only have the M5 nozzle in there now, but I have M10 and M15 on hand. Most of the NABR guys that are meth users run M15 or dual M10s. I don't think Im going to push it that hard on my evo8, as the turbo's seem to blow up when you run 30psi spikes (similar to what happens to T25s that are pushed hard).
    Vicarous DSM: GVR4 431: 9.3@150+ (we gotta get that thing right this year!)

    07 Dodge Magnum SRT8: 6.1L RWD w/ 2.3L roots blower, longtubes, crazy custom driveline, no traction, and no tuning. Again...(gotta get that thing setup right this year!)

  4. #4
    Grim Reaper Nate Crisman's Avatar
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    On a bad note: Im getting aggrivated about the solonoid.

    I was wiring up the hobbs switch and testing it out. Seems the NOS fuel solonoid is not opening consistently. First time it will open, anytime after that it will not. I did not have any trouble with it on the car, it seemed to open every time. If I dissassemble the noid, it will work again the first time. The plunger doesn't seem to be binding, nothing looks abnormal. My theory is that after the lines are primed up to pressure the first time, the solonoid does not have enough magnet strenght to open against 150psi (guestimate since gauges are all broken) of alky pump pressure. The NOS solonoid plunger has slots that allow the input pressure to act on the top of the plunger to keep it sealed (anti leak). I wonder if that is basicly locking it shut after the first time it opens.

    Either way, Im scared to trust it now. I read on some of the DIY sites that people are running the shurflo pumps without a solonoid or checkvalve, and that the Shurflo pump has an internal check valve that is pretty reliable. Im thinking now I might just bypass the whole solonoid and run Pump -> -4 SS line -> Nozzle. Nothing inbetween. Obviously the vacuum in the ic pipe would empty the 3' line every time it shuts off, but that's no worse than now with a solonoid.

    Anyone have any advise for me in this situation?

    I see the SMC kits don't appear to have a solonoid. Do they have a check valve external to the pump?
    __________________
    Vicarous DSM: GVR4 431: 9.3@150+ (we gotta get that thing right this year!)

    07 Dodge Magnum SRT8: 6.1L RWD w/ 2.3L roots blower, longtubes, crazy custom driveline, no traction, and no tuning. Again...(gotta get that thing setup right this year!)

  5. #5
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    This is the check valve for you.

    Hope it helps you out.

    Check Valve: Vacuum Engine GM #14047619 This is a one way check valve.
    THE ORIGINAL 1-2 MAN

  6. #6
    Grim Reaper Nate Crisman's Avatar
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    I took the car out this morning to test/tune. Was able to get boost up to 25psi falling to 21psi with no fuel cut. I have the AFC set at -10% at 3000-4000 -15 at 4500 and -19 from 5000rpm up. Running .94-.96 on stock o2. Need to fine tune with wideband tonight.

    timing looks pretty good to me for unflashed 03 ecu:
    3000 4*
    4000 4*
    4500 6*
    5000 7*
    5500 8*
    6000 11*
    6500 15*
    7000 19*
    7500 20*

    running M5 nozzle with shurflow pump pressure switch bypassed. no idea on actual pressure..as it keeps breaking gauges. no solonoid or check valves. Just pump, -4 ss line, nozzle. Hobb switch turning it on at 17psi...Im going to lower it to about 10psi to hopefully richen up the 3500-4000rpm range, lean it out a bit more there and get some more timing on the low end.

    It's definatly an improvement so far. Need to regap plugs to run more boost..Im seeing missfires at 25psi.
    Vicarous DSM: GVR4 431: 9.3@150+ (we gotta get that thing right this year!)

    07 Dodge Magnum SRT8: 6.1L RWD w/ 2.3L roots blower, longtubes, crazy custom driveline, no traction, and no tuning. Again...(gotta get that thing setup right this year!)

  7. #7
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    awesome that it works.. I've been planning to go alky/meth this year too. if someone finds out how to rig it to a 2g let me know!
    ~Tom
    95 Talon TSi AWD - SOLD
    2007 Subaru 2.5i SE - Stock as a mofo, yep mofo.

  8. #8
    Grim Reaper Nate Crisman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blcknspo0ln
    awesome that it works.. I've been planning to go alky/meth this year too. if someone finds out how to rig it to a 2g let me know!
    It's basicly universal, other than you need to figure out where to put the bottle and where to mount the pump.
    Vicarous DSM: GVR4 431: 9.3@150+ (we gotta get that thing right this year!)

    07 Dodge Magnum SRT8: 6.1L RWD w/ 2.3L roots blower, longtubes, crazy custom driveline, no traction, and no tuning. Again...(gotta get that thing setup right this year!)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate@DSMotorsport
    Quote Originally Posted by blcknspo0ln
    awesome that it works.. I've been planning to go alky/meth this year too. if someone finds out how to rig it to a 2g let me know!
    It's basicly universal, other than you need to figure out where to put the bottle and where to mount the pump.
    blcknspo0ln = tom = lazy

    ok seriously.. I think i'm going to put this kit together in the spring.. let us know about the results !
    ~Tom
    95 Talon TSi AWD - SOLD
    2007 Subaru 2.5i SE - Stock as a mofo, yep mofo.

  10. #10
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    You can pick up a six gallon tank from alcohol injection systems for ... the tunability and progressive control of the meth with the alkycontrol kit.

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