Engine rebuild advice

[TuRBoTaLooN95]

I'm so glad NJDSM is back. I can actually post about something and ask for advice and not get ripped apart for not searching the interwebs first!

So as the holidays are here and my "holiday" bonus is about to be dropped in my bank account, it's time for Talon to start getting the transplant it needs to get back on the road. Damned the cold weather, I'll be working on this thing through January and February...probably March with my luck. I just wanted to get some thoughts from you guys as I lay out my plans for the new motor...

Long story short(er) I have the 7 bolt with a spun bearing in my car now. Another 7 bolt shortblock with a spun bearing and missing a rod/piston on an engine stand (thanks Tom, haha) and a 6 bolt shortblock from a running laser in a crate in the garage. I decided to go OEM 6 bolt shortblock with a 7 bolt head. I'm not doing anything crazy with the talon, so I'm keeping the 6 bolt stock.

I obviously don't want to just slap in a used 6 bolt shortblock and pray for it to work, so I decided to get it rebuilt with stock parts. I spoke with Rob from Edwin Automotive Engineering who says he has a bunch of experience with these motors. Tom suggested him, and this guy sais he's worked on a bunch of your cars and especially mentioned Nate.

I'm going to stop by his shop in January with the block to discuss more detail, but I have a few things in mind. I was looking at the "Frankenstein" rods sold by DSM Graveyard that work with 2g pistons which are $99 with core and they can assemble the rod/piston combo for me and ship it back. For pistons, since I'm stickin to OEM, I'm looking at the Topline pistons sold by ExtremePSI for $160/set. If I go with the frankenstein rods, I'll get the 2g .020" over or if I stick with OEM 1g rods, I'll go 1g .020" over. If I stick with 1g rods, I'll have the shop look them over and recondition them if necessary. I also plan on getting Clevite tri-metal main bearings since they are like $35/set it's some added peace of mind.

So the plan is for the shop to dissasemble the block, bore, hone, hot tank (3x he said he does it) and decked and rebuilt. He gave me a rough quote of $1,200 for the labor, but he said it could change depending on the condition of the block, etc. So once that is done and ready to go, I'll bring my cylinder head to him to be checked if the surface is within spec for flatness. If not it looks like I'll have to have the head rebuild and decked . In any case, since the holes for the head studs need to be drilled a bit to fit the 7 bolt head, I'll have them do that and attach the head at the shop while they have everything. This way I can't screw it up.

Once I have a shortblock/head to drop in the car I'll start throwing it back together. I'll still need the whole timing belt/water pump kit, FPR, WB, and a few other little things to get it running, but at least I can start working on it.

There are some other things I'd like to get while I'm doing this, but money is tight. Silly me sold my BC 272's thinking I was going to do a 2.3 stroker so I was going to get BC 280's. Now I'm thinking of sticking with 272's so I have to buy a new set. I'd like to get the BC spring/retainer kit as well for the head. I'd also like to replace the fuel lines with stainless steel lines (STM sells a nice kit...but it's like $400!). I also am in desperate need of new tires and 17" rims instead of 16's. I'll need a camber kit for the rear and a good alignment (I never got one after lowering it). I got a 2gb front bumper that is black and in need of paint. Plus other misc things, gaskets, bolts, etc. So this project will probably take me forever and a day.

Anyway, long post, but I wanted to get some input from you guys. Anything else that I SHOULD do or HAVE TO DO for this? Any other recommendations for parts/labor, etc?

PS - happy holidays!

[atc250r]

If you want to have the head rebuilt I have an excellent guy right down the block from me. I wouldn't fool around with any sort of "Frankenstein" bullshit. The stock 6 bolt rods are good for 500hp, I would either use them or buck up for a set of Crowers or maybe a set of Manleys to save a few bucks. Are you saying that they charge you $99 to bore a set of 1G rods out to fit 2G pistons on them? If they do I'd tell them to stuff it, that's way too much money. I wouldn't cheap out on the pistons either. OEM or a good performance set but not cheapo topline ones.

John

[TuRBoTaLooN95]

wheres a good place to buy new OEM pistons?? I think JNZ sells oem stuff, but I dont remember. I thought Topline was pretty much oem.

[96integrals1505]

Just my opinion, but it seems as if you are going to be spending around 1500-2000 on the short block alone. Why wouldnt you just buy a stage one or two from buschur instead of piecing it together. To me that seems easier.

[blcknspo0ln]

I don't thin it's necessary for you do go through all of that, Jeff. It sounds like you never plan on outflowing your 50 trim, so I'd suggest the following through Rob. I'm going to recommend the KISS method for your build. Frankensteins, new pistons, new rods, etc are all great, but I don't think it should be a prioirity.

Disassemble
Hot tank
Deck, if necessary
Recon rods, if necessary
new rings (your choice)
hone, assuming it does not need boring and clearances are in spec
polish/clean crank
new rod/main bearings
new oem rod/main bolts
reassemble

This should limit the amount of machining rob needs to do to get your shortblock up and running.

next, the head: Are you really going to rev past 7500? I know I do, so the BC spring kit was a necessity. If not, stick with stock valve train.

BC spring kit, optional
BC cam
new valve seals
new valve guides
clean the head
mill the head, if necessary
reassemble

Also, while I do have confidence in Rob's work, I simply can't see why you wouldn't put the long block together. I find it very comforting to know that I hand torqued the head studs myself and put the head gasket on myself to know it was done right, 100% of the time.

[atc250r]

The only reason I wouldn't use stock size pistons is that there is no way that a block with 100,000 miles on it couldn't use a fresh bore.

John

[TuRBoTaLooN95]

The only reason I wouldn't use stock size pistons is that there is no way that a block with 100,000 miles on it couldn't use a fresh bore.

John

You're 100% right. .020" mitsu pistons will be ordered.

[TuRBoTaLooN95]

Tom, I will definitely speak with Rob when I bring the block to the shop and only get done what needs done. The rods should be ok considering it came out of a running car, but we'll have to take a look when they are out. New pistons are a necessity as I refuse to re-use pistons with 90K miles on them. So new OEM pistons and rings will definitely be ordered. I never plan on outflowing this turbo or upgrading on this car, so 100% OEM is the way I'm going. Stock rods, recon'd of necessary. I'll probably drill out the holes for the head myself now that I got some sweet ass new tools for christmas that I'm itching to use.

As for the head, I will most likely not need to rev past 7500 RPM. The head will not be touched unless the surface is not flat and needs to be decked. Then I'll make a decision about that rebuild. I decided this car is going to be more towards the street/weekend type car If I can bust out an 11 second time slip I'll be stoked and 100% satisfied with the car. And when I say 11 second time slip, I mean 11.999. This souldn't be terribly hard considering I pulled a 12.5 with the old motor and a shitty tune.

[T_K]

1G rods with 2G pistons is a common combo.

[atc250r]

1G rod/2G piston combo is working great for me for 30,000 miles.